Winnipeg Needs To Overhaul Its Transit Overhaul

Matt Cundill  0:04  
In the city of Winnipeg, public transportation is a mess. The city can't figure out how to make routes effective, reliable, and safe. Things have gotten so bad it became difficult to find bus drivers, but perhaps there's help on the way. John Woodstock is running for mayor in Winnipeg. He's a former bus driver who has come to learn how the city really works, its roots, its people, its winters, and its politics. Don shares what a decade behind the wheel taught him about Winnipeg, the small acts of kindness, and why he believes the recent overhaul of transit in Winnipeg has left too many people literally out in the cold. Hey, Don,

Don Woodstock  0:44  
it's always a pleasure to see you, man, and connect with you. You're one of the pioneer people. People don't know back in the day when I asked for a simple name change, a simple language, and look where we are today, man. Like, it's amazing, right? So, thank you from the bottom of my heart. Every time,

Matt Cundill  0:59  
Don and I go back, back in 2007 We got Winnipeg to think about recycling first. It's all documented in his book called Unrelenting, which we profiled a few episodes back. 2007 was also the same year he applied to be a bus driver. Today we will discuss safety on the busses, his day one solution, his vision for electrifying the fleet, and why he's running for mayor.

Don Woodstock  1:24  
Well, in 2007 I applied to drive transit because I wanted to kind of know the, you know, the city. I wanted to, you know, get myself known into the realm of how this city moves, and so that was my focus, actually. In 2007 and people say, why, why would you think that way? 2007 I had a job back then, and, and that job was a very decent job, and I struggled with the information that I'm gonna have to start at it, was 1616 85 an hour start right back then, and I struggled with it, but I said, what good could come from it is after a few years, you, you, you, you get to know the city better than most people, and so I wanted, genuinely wanted to get to know this city, so that it helped me shape my thought process for it going forward, knowing fully well that I was going to be immersed in the political arena, so I didn't just get up one day and say, yeah, let me just try a bus driver, it was a deliberate action on my part to get to know the city personally firsthand, and this was what it was.

Matt Cundill  2:47  
What did you learn about Winnipeg from driving a bus

Don Woodstock  2:50  
during the winters? People will complain a lot more than they do in the summer, and so you had to learn to balance that with the justification of it being cold, the justification of the bus being late, but through it all, there's always those one and two customers who will see exactly what's going on, know that it is not your fault, and come and give you a chocolate or come and give you a Bible verse or come and tell you something good that just wipes everything away. What just happened, and I thought I was there's always one. So, whenever there's a confrontation on the bus, in the back of my mind I go, yeah, I know there's one. There's one gonna come forward, because I, you know, I believe this city is going to find me that one person, and to my, to my pleasure, you know, to my surprise, every time the one who you expect to speak up is not the one who does it right, it's, it's always amazing, you know, you know, it's that little guy, or that little girl, or that older lady, or that older gentleman who come and says, you know, mr. Bus driver, you're doing a fantastic job, and give you a pat on the back. Simple things, simple things like those just wipe all of the, the animosity and the stress, because it's a very stressful job. It's an extremely stressful job, and I was able, I was.. I'm glad I was able to be a part of that system for almost 10 years.

Matt Cundill  4:29  
What was your most difficult day?

Don Woodstock  4:32  
Oh, wow. When there was a terrible snowstorm downtown, and I had to do an early morning shift out out from Crestview or Wayo Polo Park, past Polar Park, all the way out Saint James, and there was two accidents on the road, knowing that I had to get downtown and then turn my. Bus into I number 11 to go to Glenn Loop, and and take that 11 back. I'm like, man, I am eight minutes late, 10 minutes late, 20 minutes late, half an hour late, and knowing that it was cold, I just said, man, everybody's gonna blame me, and I was the first boss, so of course everybody's gonna blame me that morning, and sure as hell that morning everybody gave me the finger, one finger, the first finger, not any other finger, but they gave me the finger, says, "Man, you're late, and so I said nothing, I said absolutely nothing, because I know if I had said something, I know it would just make it worse. So I just smiled. Good morning, good morning. When I got downtown, and people saw that I was like half an hour, four to five minutes late to get downtown, but they passed the two accidents on the road, then things lighten up a little bit, but prior to that, Matt, the stress leveler that was through the roof, like literally through the roof, like it's hard to explain to someone that there's nothing you can do when there's really nothing you can do, so there's not no explanation, and you can't say anything about it, right? Because if you do, it just makes it worse, so you just grin and beard. So, but that was good training, that was good training, I'd say.

Matt Cundill  6:39  
Did you have a favorite route.

Don Woodstock  6:41  
Oh Lord, so you have favorite routes in two way as a bus driver. Favorite routes would be at 84 back in the day when you went into Linden Woods, because from Stafford, so you had lots of time on the run. You have some beautiful people who come on, and they always have something for you every single trip, right? They always have something for you, whether it's be a nice saying or they get something new that morning, or they bring you an orange, they always have something for you, right, a kind word, but there's also another favorite. So, when you're doing the 59 or you're doing the 16, and you go from borrows all the way to Island Lake, it was such a pleasure, you know, to drive through those two communities, and and the friendliness of the, you know, the, you know, the Filipino community, you know, when you're driving through boroughs and some areas, they always have some little tidbits for you that is just second to know. The Filipino community love bus drivers, and that's why a lot of my Filipino friends still drive bus today, you know, they have a deep rooted respect for bus drivers, which comes from their culture, which is, which is, this was very, very, very, very nice, very, very nice,

Matt Cundill  8:18  
just a technical thing right now, watch your hands when you bounce the table, because you're gonna get cameras.

Don Woodstock  8:22  
Oh, yes, yes, yes. Okay, okay.

Matt Cundill  8:26  
What was the moment for you when you thought somebody's got to fix this?

Don Woodstock  8:32  
So last year, Matt, every time I think about it, it burns a piece of me and Kathy, my wife drove bus for transit for eight years. You know, we sat around and we talked about this November, and it, you know, October, November, and knowing that people were outside and we saw them because I live in the north end of the city, and so I, I've seen on a regular basis my people waiting, and minus 15, minus 20, whether you see them waiting on the, and they're holding up behind buildings or beside buildings, because the bus shock isn't heated anymore because of another issue, and it pains us every time we see it. Every time we pass, Kathy would put our head down, and I go, "Man, I said, sweetheart, geez, man, I have to do something about this, and say, "You know, I have, I've, I've made a commitment to run, and I'm really not gonna run. I'm really gonna put every effort into this one, because this has to change for people to stay outside, minus 15, minus 20, even minus 10, minus five, never, never mind 15 and 20 with the wind chill, minus five, you, if you stand outside. And nobody is expecting that you're going to be out there for more than five minutes or so, you're standing on both sides for 15 minutes. I work outdoors, I have guys that work outdoor, we do insulation for cameras and security, so I know what that fee is like, Matt. And when I see people out there and knowing that it is, it is a biting cold day, and then, and then you see the seniors, the seniors outside waiting with like crazy. It burns my heart, you know that this is must be something cruel. You know to me, it's a very cruel thing that has been done. You cannot change the bus route as people knew it in the middle of winter. This is not Jamaica, this is not Florida, this is not Mexico. You, there's no way you should do any kind of changes to people's route and their, you know, the connection that forces them to walk an extra blocker. No, no, stop this. No, no. This is this is Winnipeg, and the people who don't drive bus, and the people who don't have to stand at the bus stop, they have zero clue math as to why it is why changing, changing the bus system in the middle of winter is so cruel, it's cruel.

Matt Cundill  11:25  
What frustrates you the most when you hear politicians talking about transit in Winnipeg?

Don Woodstock  11:33  
They don't even have the decency, the decency to take the bus for a week, they don't even have the decency to stand up among regular folks, but they talk as if they are, they are somehow God almighty, or they talk as if they are somehow able to solve this problem, but if, if they have the capacity, or have the capacity to solve this problem, this problem would have been solved already, right. It's as simple as me coming to you and say, Matt, I want you to listen to this idea, and when you listen to it, you say, you know, don't I think it's a good idea, let's do it, and you jump on board with it, no different than when these people, they hear the consultants talk, they listen to other people try and talk, but they don't even take the time to even understand how people are feeling, how people are getting by. They don't care, and they have the nerves, they have the gall, they got the gumption to look straight dead in the camera and spew the garbage they spew without even taking the doing their own due diligence. As a human being, you don't have to be a perfect person in this world to even understand what somebody else is going through. You just have to be human, you know. How is it that they're getting by? How is it people are moving from point a to point B, so if after the day they change, if one city councilor had said, "You know what, I am going to do my due diligence, and I'm going to take the bus for a month, just so that when I am speaking about it, I can say this is what is instead of what we think it is. Here's what is on the ground, and especially in winter, I dare any one of them to go and take the bus one month in the winter, I dare them do it.

Matt Cundill  13:30  
That's that sounds like the same answer I would get if I said cycling instead of riding the bus.

Don Woodstock  13:40  
Oh man, oh man, gray areas, right? But, but at the same time, you know, you got to have the practical experience of things to actually know. Knowledge is key. Knowledge is power.

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Matt Cundill  14:15  
city recently reconfigured, and I don't know how much money they paid for this, but they reconfigured every route in the city, and with objectives to try to make it more efficient, but at the same time make it so we can get from point a to point b quicker. That included a lot of renumbering, you know, a complete abandonment of previous routes, and virtually everything changed about, you know, public transportation and the bus routes in Winnipeg. How has that gone in your view? And there seems to also be a lot of people who want it, who want to change it, fix it, roll it back. Where do you stand on the new implementation of the routes?

Don Woodstock  14:57  
Well, first of all, man, thanks for the question. Um, they actually lied to us, not lied to us. They misled us, is the correct verbiage to use. My lawyer says I gotta be careful, but they misled us, and because the real problem is that they were losing, and probably still are losing too many drivers more than they could fill those seats. When I joined transit, I literally applied in 2007 Didn't get called until about eight months later. Today you apply for transit, and you probably get called the first day you apply, or the first, or next week. That's a problem. Prior to me joining, there was a time when people waited three, four years to get into transit, so it has eroded the confidence, the quality, the answer, the time that people take to get into this institution has gone, gone to nothing. It shouldn't be that way, because we need to look at the other problems that cause the drivers to leave, and so I have a 20 point plan that I've laid out on my site, Don woodstock.com from practical experience, from practical knowledge, not from some book, not some consultant. And to answer your question, the city paid $4 million so they say. We don't know the true numbers, because truth be told, the city of Winnipeg has been in developing and mastering the art of this, of not being honest with the taxpayer. You ask them a question, and they're very good at evading it without giving you the real truth, without giving you the real real answer, they evade it and hide the facts, so they say they spend $4 million and they spend it with somebody who lives in Vancouver. Well, the person's gone back to Vancouver. Well, any consultant that's from Vancouver or from a warm climate or somebody that's not Winnipeg is not going to understand Winnipeg, so that's the first mistake. Change in transit is a priority in this election, and it has to change there with the system before wasn't perfect. I know that it needed some tweaking, I get that, but to change it to what it is now to go from zero to 100 No, man, no, no, no, no, no. How about we go from zero to 35 then 40, then 50, then 60? But to go from zero to 100 and this is what they have done from one scale to the next, they should have tweaked it instead of spend money on it, and I am leery of politician getting consultants from other cities, other states, other parts of the country to come in and do a project, because we, because I am of the opinion that the only reason why some people are chosen for this, this $4 million payout is because there's something else to it, something else is attached to it, and so that to me needs to be scrutinized. That to me should be brought, brought in front of council as to who actually get this money. Did the money go to one person, two persons, 10 people, you know? And who are these people, and how are they connected to transit? Because what they're doing is wrong, Matt. They should never have done it. Never have done it

Matt Cundill  18:54  
in your time as a driver. Did you ever experience violence?

Don Woodstock  18:58  
Oh, yes. So, as a Jamaican, I have a rare distinction that I don't run from a fight. Okay, never did in my entire life. So I've had multiple white cards, so to speak, where the supervisor call you in and tell you don't do this or don't do that, so somebody comes on and they're ready to behave all tough guy, whatever. So, what I normally do, and I don't encourage other drivers to do this, I tell my wife, don't do this. So I close the front door and tell ladies and gentlemen, the front door is broken, so if they want to get out, they got to get out the back. So, I just say, you know, I park the, you know, part the spring break. I turn and I'll face them, and I said, "Buddy, if you want to dance, let's dance, you know, because you got to throw the first punch at me first, because the law is funny. If I throw the first punch, I'm the aggressive. So and no time at all, Matt did ever take me up on it, none, not one, you know, because they know the dealer is a Jamaican who is not afraid to help himself, you know,

Matt Cundill  20:13  
I know in Winnipeg I saw a lot of transit shelters where the glass is kicked out, and then the other thing I see a lot of is violence on the bus, not necessarily against the bus driver, which does happen often, but just, you know, two people fighting, somebody on the on the bus trying to, you know, pick a fight. What are some of the solutions to those problems?

Don Woodstock  20:35  
So, four years ago, I said the answer to transit safety is plain clothes officers on the bus. Finally, the mayor and council start putting plainclothes officers in the bus, but the only problem that they have is that they, they actually got uniform officers and plainclothes officers. But before that, they spend a lot of time with transit supervisors, transit safety officers, all of which cost way more than a first year officer that is in plain clothes on the bus, as a junior officer is $60,000 a year, starting salary, and these transit supervisors and safety people is $80,000 or more, and then you're talking about uniform officers. Uniform officers are 80, 100,000 Why not just stick to my simple plan? Is the bus driver telling you, listen, I have been, I've been on the bus long enough to tell you, if a plainclothes officer is on my bus, and the nonsense starts immediately. The perception is that you don't know who you're sitting down beside, and it could be one, so people are forced to behave themselves, as long as you can catch a couple of them, because we know bus drivers know what routes, what section of the city, and I don't want nobody get on me about stereotyping, because I don't care about your stereotyping, the facts are the facts. I wouldn't put a plain clothes office on an eight to four road going from Stafford down to Taylor. I wouldn't, because the chances are I'm not gonna get anybody baby like a jackass.

Matt Cundill  22:13  
Yeah, well, the data's the data. The data is the data, so it's

Don Woodstock  22:16  
there. So don't bother get on me about any kind of nonsense. Leave me alone. The data is there, right? I mean, I didn't create the data, you created the data with your nonsense, right? So, leave me alone, you know, everybody's got, oh, leave me alone, you created the data, okay? So I'm just solving the problem, plain clothes officers on the bus, perfect. And as mayor, that's exactly what I would do, catch these people and make sure that I lobbied, lobbied the federal government real hard, and Winnipeg need to know that I'm a lobbyist. Winnipeg need to know that I'm the guy who have never been elected but managed to get up and get a lot of things done through City Hall, so if I tell you, Winnipeg, that I'm going to lobby this, this federal government to make sure that if you have a rap sheet longer than my two arms, you ain't gonna get a slap on the wrist. No, no, no, no, no, no, not, not when I'm mayor, no, no, no, not when I met.

Matt Cundill  23:17  
I love that as a short-term solution, something you could put in on day one, if elected as mayor, but what's something that you're thinking about involving transportation in Winnipeg that is going to take the full term, the full four years.

Don Woodstock  23:32  
So we are in the center of Canada, we have the cheapest pharma hydro built ever produce in the world, right here. Manitoba Hydro produced the cheapest former hydro in the world. Our land cost is relatively cheap compared to other cities. Our labor cost is relatively low compared to other cities. We don't have massive development in the center of Canada because our politics stinks. We allow politicians to BS us and tell us garbage time and time again. Meanwhile, the people are on welfare, or most of the people are working with the government are working for the government. I want to change that. So the first set of electric bus that was built in the city in this province was because Don Woodstock was driving a bus, went to Jim Rondo and says, "Hey, why am I driving a diesel bus when the leader of electrification of busses is new flyer industry that's in my backyard that don't make no sense, and given the fact that we have cheap hydro, so they have not rolled out rightly the correct way, haven't been rolled out properly in terms of electrication, electrification of our fleet, I'm not advocating. That we 100% get rid of diesel, no way, but we sure can get 30 40% of our fleet electrification, which is cheaper in the long run. People don't look at the cost as what it is, you're spending billions of dollars short term, no, no, no, no, it's way cheaper in the long run if we have more busses electrification, and I understand the challenges, and I understand that they tried to get some of these things done, but again it wasn't done properly. It's just like the recycling, the recycling of your beverage container. By now, I thought that we would be like Calgary, where we're paying people to return the cans, can we, we, we pay for the cans when, when, when you buy a drink, but nobody's giving you about money when you return it. No, that will happen when Don will stop becoming. It's very simple, because the politicians are not listening to the people. What they're listening to is a group of people who sits in the background and pull their strings, because they can give them, you know, 50,000 80,000 100,000 to their campaign, and get them elected, so they are beholden to those people. The status quo has not done anything for Winnipeg in the last 20 years. We shouldn't be where we are today, where we have so much people on welfare, and so much people working for the government. No, thank you.

Matt Cundill  26:22  
So, I like that you put an environmental sort of thought into the busses, and then you've also mentioned about the cans, and that has got my mind thinking about two things here, because I've recently moved to Quebec, and the two things that I've noticed is that I can go back to the store and take my cans back and get refunds for it, and the other thing I've noticed is, and it happened this morning, I have compost pickup, so how do you, I mean, what's your take on compost?

Don Woodstock  26:52  
Don would stock as Mayor, October, and no later, no, no later than than February, March, there will be composed pickup in this city. Will be, don't bet against it, Winnipeg. It will happen, and the only reason it hasn't happened before, in a wide scale, the city did a study. The only reason they do a study, a feasibility study, is because they want to waste time and drag it out, and pretend like they're doing something. They have the information. If I can glee the information, so can they. So, the reason they don't do it is because there's a certain element that is dictating the movement of the city that don't want us to go as environmentally friendly as we should, because it's going to disrupt how the NDP gets vote. Most people don't know the NDP government doesn't want us to be environmentally friendly, no matter what they tell you. And I have enough information and facts. Um, there there's a tire company that used to recycle here big time, and who killed it? The NDP government. Come on, give me a break, right?

Matt Cundill  28:05  
If the, if I took away the election, the politics, and the campaign that you're running right now.

Don Woodstock  28:08  
Yes,

Matt Cundill  28:09  
and all those headlines,

Don Woodstock  28:10  
yes.

Matt Cundill  28:11  
What are you going to be passionate enough for to get out of bed tomorrow?

Don Woodstock  28:15  
Oh, the future for children, Matt, is is at stake in terms of what we leave in them, in terms of how they see themselves, and so I have written us in a Noah songwriter. I don't know if you have listened to this song, Winnipeg, we believe that's the title of it. Writing the book is just one step in trying to make sure that we leave a legacy behind, so that people know that you can get up and do something about it. Don't go and die with your dreams, Winnipeggers. Don't go and have the status quo dictate to us that it is better for you to be incarcerated rather than spend money on making sure that you are, you are living the full potential you should. It's cheaper every time a child is incarcerated. In 2010 the information was that we were spending $250,000 a year on that child. Every time the police pick up that child and put them through the system. We pay for that now. If you take those 2010 numbers and you add even 50,000 to it, and says, you know, maybe it's costing about $300,000 a year for Matt, for $30,000 a year. If I give every single child in Winnipeg, Manitoba $30,000 credit to buy any kind of cleats they want, any kind of gear they want. I will reduce the incarceration rate by more than 30% You know what that means, Matt. 30% means that I will be saving billions of dollars. Over any five year period, and all we have to do is think ahead of the curve. Okay, and so for me that is that is one of my driving force right now, win, lose, or draw on any issue. I always have a driving force, but given the fact that Winnipeg is waking up to the reality that we need to do something different, and especially with transit, this is my election to lose, and I'm not about to do anything foolish or catastrophic to make that don't come true. So, you are looking at Matt, the next mayor, for Winnipeg, and the outgoing mayor is going to one day tell me, thanks, you know, for being steadfast, but for being unrelenting, for being truthful, for being honest with the people. One day he will say it, because I know he has a heart.

Speaker 1  30:49  
Sunrise breaking over Portage and Maine, hard working people trying to rise again every month. My

Matt Cundill  30:56  
thanks to Don Woodstock for joining me on the show. That song you're hearing right now, that's Don's theme song for his campaign. You can find out more about his electoral platform for mayor at Don woodstock.com My thanks to Evan Cerminsky for producing this episode. Also, Mary Tracy Paolo, who's gonna have to figure out a way to promote this show. Also, to Aiden Glassie for making the video version, which can be found on YouTube and a bunch of other places streaming across the internet, and this show is made for you with love by everyone at the Sound Off Media Company,

Tara Sands (Voiceover)  31:31  
a production of The Sound Off Media Company.